This year i play first bass but i've started training to play snare next year possibly center. I need some pointers on how to improve my diddles and my flams. I know a lot of you out there play snare and if you would please give me some pointers.

Start relatively slow, and listen to someone playing alternating 16'ths. Then play diddles at that speed, stroking them out, and try to make them sound exactly like that. As for flams, practice tap exercises, then put the flams in on the accents. Practice this every day for at least 15 minutes, and speed up your tempo every week. Good Luck!

To start off, it's my personal opinion that you should avoid double beat exercises when you're first building your diddles.

Basically, unless you already have good multiple stroke technique, double beat will encourage bad habits. (more on this later)

Here's what I believe you should start with instead of double beat and it's related to the previous post. It's helpful to practice your doubles in a 16th check pattern, because, by its nature, it properly illustrates what double strokes are--- literally, two normal strokes on a hand.

Any instructor will tell you that the way to differentiate a bounce and a diddle is to look for 2 complete wrist motions, which will signify a strong diddle.

This brings me back to double beat. The double beat exercise functions on a concept called diddle isolation. If you play a measure of 16th note check with RRLL sticking, then repeat it without the left hand, it's just 4 pairs of RR on the 1e's (fundamentally, diddles). You just isolated the right handed diddles. For effeciency and rhythmic interest, double beat exercies are designed with the same intention, but with a single 16th rest between the RR's instead of an 8th rest.

It takes a little study to find the weakness in such an exercise.

Start with the analysis of what chops double beat is supposed to build--- multiple stroke rolls. In a multiple stroke roll, there is no gap between doubles. It is a continuous string of 16th notes and the ear expects a standard of consistency from each double stroke to the next. It is very obvious when the notes are uneven in meter or individual volume.

Double beat tends to lie about your chops.

Without strong diddles to begin with, the second note of each double will not be as strong as the second. If you watch an amateur drummer play double beat, you will certainly see their stick heighth raise during the 16th rest and the second note of each double will never be as high as the first. Many drummers can go for years without realizing they are practicing uneven diddles.

That is why I do not recommend double beat to begin building your diddle chops.

Instead, I recommend that you begin with a basic stick control exercise... like this, which happens to be in 6/8

RLR LRL - RLR LRL
RRL RRL - RRL RRL
RLR LRL - RLR LRL
RLL RLL - RLL RLL
RLR LRL - RLR LRL
RRL RLR - LLR LRL 4x
RRL RRL - LRR LRR 2x
RRL LRR - LLR RLL

Master that exercise at level 6, focusing on volume consistency. I recommend that you start at a moderate tempo and work down, THEN work up to your fastest tempo. It seems illogical to do so, and I'll admit it goes against the tried-and-true mantra of "start slow and work the tempo up", but there is a method. At a moderate tempo, you start off the exercise playing badly, whether you know it or not. As the tempo falls, your technique and control improves. At that point, you have made an example of yourself and illustrated quite clearly the concept the exercise targets. Your hands literally just told your brain what it needs to do to help them. I think that experience is key to an amateur practicing with proper discipline.

Here's is an exercise that's a lot harder to even out.

measure 1 - RLRL RLRL RLRL RLRL

measure 2 - RRLR LRLR LRLR LRLR
measure 3 - LLRL RLRL RLRL RLRL

measure 4 - RRLL RRLR LRLR LRLR
measure 5 - LLRR LLRL RLRL RLRL

measure 6 - RRLL RRLL RRLR LRLR
measure 7 - LLRR LLRR LLRL RLRL

measure 8 - RRLL RRLL RRLL RRLR
measure 9 - LLRR LLRR LLRR LLRL

measure 10 - RRLL RRLL RRLL RRLL R

Picture the first measure, a steady single stroke roll, as the sonic space-time continuum. Doubles evolve into the consistent stream of flowing strokes with no disruption. The sound of every individual note is exactley the same as the last. There is perfect consistency, yet as you began with single strokes, you finish with doubles.

Achieve that control at level 3, then 6, 9, and 12. Practice this exercise at all tempos.

Now that you have a steady base technique for controlling your double stroke rolls, it's time to start working with grids.

Your first diddle grid. It rotates check->pattern the whole way through, like--- check, A, check, B, check, C, check, D

A - 1... 2... 3... 4...
B - .e.. .e.. .e.. .e..
C - ..+. ..+. ..+. ..+.
D - ...a ...a ...a ...a

Then you have the next grid (2 diddles per quarter).

A - 1e.. 2e.. 3e.. 4e..
B - .e+. .e+. .e+. .e+.
C - ..+a ..+a ..+a ..+a
D - 1..a 2..a 3..a 4..a

Finally, the third grid (3 diddles per quarter)

A - 1e+. 2e+. 3e+. 4e+.
B - 1e.a 2e.a 3e.a 4e.a
C - 1.+a 2.+a 3.+a 4.+a
D - .e+a .e+a .e+a .e+a

Now that you know pretty much all the diddle placements and combinations, you can build your rolls with...

The basic roll builder... s = single, d = diddle

ssdd ssdd ssdd ssdd
ssss dddd ssss dddd
ssss ssss dddd dddd
repeat

Then the basic roll endurance exercise.

ssss ssss dddd dddd
ssss ssss dddd dddd dddd
ssss ssss dddd dddd dddd dddd

etc... you get the idea

There's one last thing to touch on as far as "stroking out diddles". A lot of people say that playing double beat with the first note as a tap and the second note as an accent will even out your diddles, on the grounds that practicing a sequence of tap-accent will help you bring out the second note of your diddle.

Well, ummm... no

As far as biomechanics/biophysics goes, they are two completely seperate motions.

Here's the motion of playing double beat normally.

The wrist and fingers throw the stick into the head. The stick is allowed to rebound to it's original height, before the wrist and fingers throw it back again.

Here's the motion of that particular double beat variation (favoring mueller technique).

The stick starts at tap heighth. A dominantly wrist controlled motion (with some finger) is used to tap the drum, then the wrist pulls the stick up to an accent heighth. The wrist and fingers throw the stick into the head and the fingers forcefully stop the rebound.

The type of finger control in each exercise is completely different and not sympathetic in nature.

Strong double stroke rolls will have very little positive affect on your ability to play tap-accents, and strong tap-accent control will have very little positive affect on your ability to play double stroke rolls, or at least nothing vastly improved over simply playing R.R. .... L.L. .... at level 12, until you have a nice even sound.

Remember the fundamentals.

To play a better diddle have someone who is an authority on such things tell you what your diddle should be like, then play a million diddles at all heights and tempos, until it is like that.

Believe it or not, you don't need a binder full of exercises to be a chop monster. JUST PLAY! If you realize a flaw in your playing, focus on it. Ask someone in-the-know about what exactley is wrong with your technique and what needs to happen to go from bad technique to good technique. Once you know--- PRACTICE! PAY ATTENTION TO DETAIL! DISCIPLINE YOURSELF! FIX IT!

...do it all in as many baby steps as it takes.

Never let yourself worry more about HOW to practice than actually PRACTICING.

That is easily one of the most in-depth and useful, if not the most useful, post(s) about the mechanics of a double stroke roll I've ever seen. If this can't be sticky-ed, I'm not sure what could!

well...that does it...

hooray for finger control!

I don't see a lot of doubles on a bass drum. I moke my line stroke every 32nd note out. I think it gives better quality and the second note doesn't sound weak. If they were a good bass line, then I might let them get away with it.

- Edited for double-posting. -

Sorry about the double post ^^^^^^^^

- Don't triple post to apologize for a double-post. That's what the Edit button is for. -

The bass line in my band can't do anything clean faster than eighth notes. The drum captain tries to work with them, but they're just too lazy. Probably the only times they ever practice are the nights before competition.
I wish I had a good line...

If I were you I would get a really good drum teacher or a friend that likes to play a lot, just to practice together and get clean. You can't really practice getting clean by yourself when you're first starting out. My number one observation from bass players moving to snare is that they are too tense, if this doesn't apply to you then skip this post. Maybe the bass is the fly that you want to swat at, but the snare is your friend, play it as your friend and it will reward you.