Ironman I would have loved to be in that Thanksgiving dinner conversation back in '93. Its funny how you talk about that dinner argument considering the Star and Cadets drumming style derive from Thom Hannum.

Middle Age Man I can see your point about Star '93 (like I was saying either you really like the show or you really don't care for it). To me the '93 Star show is like the movie Pulp Fiction. The first time you watch it's like huh??? But there is something about it that makes you watch it again and when you watch it you start to catch things that you missed the first time and the next thing you know your hooked. But anyway, my point was that the Star '93 show was the turning point as far as the "artistic" change of the overall show concept.

After thinking about it for a little bit, look at the end of BD's show in '92. They showed a little shades of what was to come in the not so distant furture. And they took it to the next level in '94 when members of the now defunct Star visual staff went over to BD for the '94 season.

As far as musical books go, I have one show for you. SCV 1984. To me that is the granfather of the musical drum book. Hardimon pushed the envelope back then with a tasty combination of meat and substance.

As far as mid-west drumming goes, I have one show to point to. '89 Cavies. Before that show, drumming was pretty much dominated by the west coast. Dudes would come west from all over the country to be in a west coast line (particularly Devils). After '89, Cavies began a quick descent to becomming a drumming powerhouse. But all this brings me to my next point.

This might bother a few people BUT drumming how we know it now is in one way or another influenced by Tom Float and Ralph Hardimon. I say this because pretty much all instructors of today were either in a Float line or helped teach a Float line at one time or another either in Devils, VK or even when he used to help teach at UNT back in the day (Then again I'm slightly biased having been in a Float line). The same with the guys that were in the Hardimon lines of old (SCV and BK).

But back to '94 Devils. If you look at that show overall, it was very fast and kind of gimmicky (I hope nobody takes offense to this) as compared to all of the BD show that came before that year. With a fresh uniform look and a totally different type of show, BD had a banner year and helped change DCI as we knew it. It seemed like after that show, every other Corps was trying to catch the lightning in a bottle.

It seems that after the "fast" show became the norm for drum corps combined with the ultra tight tunning of drums that cleanliness and substance in drumming took a real big hit. But not everthing was for the worse. Basslines have become much improved as far a splitting parts up goes.

I'm gonna wrap it up now with one last observation. Tone quality and technique have taken a back seat to playing fast.

One last thing to the youngsters out there "PLAYING FAST DOES NOT EQUAL COMPLEX".

Old school and playing it off the left rock and I'm out!!!

I have to agree with the Float and Hardimon thing but I must add Hannum into the mix. Just look at some of the caption heads this. Colin McNutt defiantely a Hannum kid and Brian "Tink" Tinkel also a Hannum kid. I would say for sure that Float, Hardimon and Hannum have realy influenced the activity.
Its funny how tuning schemes seem to go in cycles. In the very late 80's(88 and 89) you start to hear the snare line get realy cranked up. But with the appearance of kevlar I am not surprised. Before that everyone was double or even triple hooping the plastic and mylar heads to get the tuning up. But the early and mid 90's were just out of control. I would describe the snare sound from then as "counter top". It was like the staffs at the time were like "if more is better than too much is just enough". Things started coming back down around 97 or so when Remo had what we now know as the Black Max in its prototype form with a few corps. The late 90's saw us cranking tenors into a tuning scheme that in my opinion is realy more of an alto voicing rather than a tenor voice. BD is a prime example of this tuning. I also agree that attention to tone quality and uniformity of style has also taken a real hit. Apparently playing fast singles is where its at. Where are the flam passage? I mean how many times can you hear a line play ten thousand variations on paradiddles or rolls into fast singles? I know I have seen it more than enough. Especialy up here in Spartans country.
I have to say its nice to hear from informed corps guys who have been around for a while. Especialy you VK boys. That is my favorite corps of all time. The very first .wav I ever downloaded was of the 94 tenor line the next one was the accent tap exercise which I would kill to be able to hear again and be happy forever if I could get the music for it.

Welcome Rob.
'Mick

Thanks for the welcome Ironman. It's nice to see some thought put into my original question. I'm glad I'm getting some good responses as oppossed to the one line " your mamma" stuff I see people put up.

I'm gonna agree with you with the Hannum addition. Some of my favorite stuff is his Garfield work between '85 - '88 (although I don't believe that they deserved a perfect drum score in '87. You can hear mistakes on the audio recording). I would also love to get a recording of any '94 VK line stuff (Played #2 bass in that line).

Even though I'm VERY new to the whole spectrum of DCI, I would have to say I agree with everyone here by saying that Drumlines from those days . . . Just . . . Were the sickest things I've ever seen. Look at SCV /92 and their Tenorline, or BD from '95 to '99 . . . You just don't see Drumlines like that anymore. It's just so sick.

I think I can offer a unique perspective on this topic. I was first introduced to drum corps in 1984 and was instantly hooked. In 1989 my dream of marching Drum Corps final came true. I finished my drum corps career in 1991 and, although I continued to watch the finals broadcasts for a few years, pretty much lost touch with what was going on in drum corps. I went to college (that had no marching program until the year after I graduated), got a job and did all the other "real life" stuff.

My interest in drumming was rekindled this year after my best friend asked me to help him build a "drum line program" at a small school where he teaches math. I thought it would be a good idea to take the kids to a drum corps show to get them motivated and give them an idea of what a drum line should be. So, off to Orlando we went.

Having not been to a show for over ten years, I was expecting to hear some drumming that would blow my mind. If lines were doing cheeses, flam-fives and other hybrid rudiments back in my day, what insane new variations was I to hear now? I was somewhat disappointed. It seemed hard to find a flam in anyone's show. I remember comparing drum lines by how many notes they could ram into their book. Yes, we tried to be musical back then, but more emphasis was put into showing off chops.

I have not used the word "see" until now, only "hear". To be honest, I didn't give much thought to what I would "see" drum lines doing. What I did see was amazing. Stick heights have gotten insanely high. I remember when playing something at eye level was considered an incredible feat. Now I was seeing lines playing over their heads! Also, the drill for the battery was much more intricate and difficult than a lot of the stuff we did. Splitting up a line during a roll or other difficult passage seems common place these days. Visually it was much more exciting.

Now, I'm not saying old school is better than new school or vise versa. Nor am I saying that what is being played now is easy. It is easy to see that players today have incredible hands, feet and minds. It seems to me that there is more emphasis today on the visual aspect and less on showing off your lines chops. I believe, like so many other things in life, these things work in cycles. In another ten years I think we will be seeing more notes rammed into the book and less visual stuff, only time will tell.

Well that's my two cents, for what it's worth.

It's good to see another defunct crops veteran on this site. I guess you're right bizbob, hopefully drumming clean notes come full circle. While marching fast drill is cool, it sure does take a lot away from the audio part. Like you, the first drum corps I ever heard was on a tape (BD 1983) and it was what I "heard" that wanted me to work hard and make a corps line. I used to have drum corps viewing parties at my house the day finals came out and when it was finished I would count the days until next year. Now, It's not such a big deal to me to see the show. Tone quality and technique have taken a big hit (in my poinion). I think I enjoy the watching parking lot show more than watching the corps perform. I hope that someone with buck the current trend soon, and start a new trend by drumming "clean" tough meat.

I'm really disappointed. NOT ONCE has anyone mentioned "demand" being taken off the sheet in '84.

As soon as that happened, it opened things up for the "East Coast"/Hannum style of playing, which actually started with Garfield in '83 and took off in '84. (you guys were about 2 years late with your '86 ness.)

The styles also changed with the advent of the Kevlar heads. Santa Clara proto-typed them in '89 and it took the manufactures about 2/3 years to build a drum to stand up to it (Pearl 91) and it took the writers and players about 3/4 years to figure out how to write for it and play on it.

Lines lost their "individual personalites" in the mid 80's when people started corps hopping. When corps went from a more local activity to the national (and now "ring chasing" mentality) Back in the day (HA) the Bridgemen sounded like the bridgemen because they all grew up in the same neighbor hood and learned from the same guy. The same was true of SCV with Sanford and The Cavies etc. Then in the 80s people started to travel to be in corps...and staffs started chaning. It used to be that you worked with one corps and stayed there and other corps didn't want anything to do with you...now it's not uncommon for a guy to teach 3 or four corps in 4 years...look at Lee and Colin.

I can remeber when Brian Mason left Cavs for Phantom...and Cavies and Phantom used to (and still do to a certain extent) hate each others guts. Now everyone's all nicey nice and a guy can leave one corps to teach another and take half the line with him. Fortunately and unfortunatly the "free agent mentality" is everywhere these days...and that's what's watering down everyone's identaties.

Sorry for the rant!

Just to clarify a few things, Vanguard prototyped the Remo Falam in '87. Also, Premier unveiled the free-floating snare drum in '88 which Star used in '89. The Blue Devils used essentially the same snare drum in '89, only rebadged as a Yamaha since Yamaha owned Premier at the time. You're right about Pearl launching the FFX in '91 to the masses but Vanguard did prototype that drum in '90.

You make some good points, in fact, the center tenor this year for Phantom marched Cavaliers '02-'04. When I was marching a move like that would have been blasphemus.

I stand corrected. It was '87 (the second russian year) I can hear the show, but the numbers get mixed up anymore. You are also correct with the Premier, which made sence because they had "the pipe drum tip" back then as well as the being owned by Yamaha. Wasn't there a year of
"bridge" lugs in there for Cavies before they went to the SFZ?

Nobody mentioned "demand" being taken off the sheets. That and the "build up" vs. tick system is what really allowed the writing to change.