I agree with cymbals. Bad form is bad technique, which leads to bruises and blistered palms. It really sucks to have bad form.

whatever, guys.

i'll make sure to let SCV, Bluecoats, Spirit, Colts, Suncoast Sound, Southwind, Magic, Rhythm X, and Project cymbal players that some HS and DIII cymbal players think that their technique is wrong.

LOL.

The Jersey Surf is a Division 2 corps...and I did not say their technique was wrong. I said that bad technique is what causes bruises. Have you ever actually, in the most heterosexual way, seen an scv cymbalist or crossmen cymbalist with their shirt off during the summer? Two different corps using two different techniques. To date I've seen no marks, save for a pinch here or there. They do it correctly, and therefore have no major visible bruises. If you are doing it wrong, however, bruising may occur.

Maybe I ventured off topic then. What I'm talking about are the bruises you get after an ensemle or run-through. Of course hat scars are almost inevitable, but if you use correct technique those bruises that you get right after playing the show or sectionals can be lessened or even controlled if you use proper form. Of course some scars are going to be there.

I might agree that the tissue toughens up as you play cyms more often, but just because that may "lessen" the thresh-hold until you're bruising doesn't mean you won't get bruised again; It just may take longer.

To conclude:

Bad technique can cause bruising - I'll agree to that...heck...bad technique in anything can cause bruising.
Good technique can cause bruising - Definitely, depending on the technique being used.

Just don't think that because someone is getting bruised that they're using poor technique, it can go both ways.

After a few season of drum corps i can tell you that briuses can happen, but they shouldn't be frequent, you're more likley to see redness and tenderness. small scratches as well. sometimes sweat causes the plates to oxidize then cause the skin to turn blue/ green. combine that with the tenderness and it can feel alot a lot like bruising. and no it doesnt wash off in the shower. What is alot a lot more common however is pinching the stomach to the point of bruising, even after you get good at it, you'll still get it about once a week or so. you're hands i think get the brunt of the nasty, if you don't use gloves, they turn into stained leathery nasty. Another huge factor is the player that is pklaying everyone has different skin types. i know players that marched cymbals for 6 drum corps seasons straight, and never once got a bruise. some people skin is softer than others. It can even depend on the players individual tehchnique. Personally i liked to use more arms than pit, others use more pit than arm. the worst i ever got was from my left cymbal. it had a crack ion it, and it would cut me if i choked it against my body there. had it during move ins and the first 2 days of tour, the first week my right pec was a bloody pulp. then a scabby pulp, and that alternated for a bit until we finally got our cymbals from zildjian.

Here is a question for the "bad technique" people. Can someone define and explain for me what exactly bad technique is? What is "proper form"? I've always considered something to be "bad technique" whenever the sound produced from the cymbal line is one that was not the intent of the writer. Whats all of your definitions?

A cymbal line that has, good sound quality, a uniform approach to the cymbals, moves together but some of them get bruised while playing now has bad technique? Let's play a little cause and effect. Our effect is that we have bruises. As already stated, the cause is from bad technique. What can be done to correct this and to have good technique? Everyone is quick to point out that something is incorrect but no one has stated a solution. Which is what makes me agree with Kevin and think that a lot of the rest of you don't know what you are talking about. Everyone seemed to jump on the band wagon (some even completely changed there mind from a previous post) whenever Mr. Kozol stated his opinion. Not trying to be a hater. I just want to hear peoples reasoning for there conclusion instead of beating the bad technique horse even more.

In my opinion (notice that I said opinion)There is no wrong way to play cymbals which is why there are so many different techniques. Bruising is a by-product of a technique. As I stated previously, people are built different. Some people bruise easier than others. As long the cymbal line is adding to the music in a way that the writer intended, they are not wrong. Some people write parts for cymbals to be inverted. That’s obviously from bad technique, right? No, it's not, because that was the intention with the writing. Cymbals are not a “by the book” instrument. There isn’t an across the board standard.

People are way too quick to conclude that "bad technique" is always the answer but a solution is never given. All I'm asking for is the definition of bad technique and what I can do to fix it. Easy enough? Help me see your point of view.

1st)the point that Jkozal was trying to make was that you don't need to jam the cymbals into your body and create bruises. a "good technique" would be to find the balance of arm to pit combination so that it sounds and looks like you're jamming them into yourself but its really just a controlled movement. I would define bad technique as moving you're plates in an uncontrolled fashion. and to correct this is to practice. it would bee like trying to play a roll by just throwing the stick at the head and hoping two notes come out of it. the solution is to find the balance for crash chokes,and place them in the pocket (the area between the pec and the shoulder) don't slam and when moving to the high hat position, again place them on you're stomach, there is no need to jam them. there is ablsoutly nothing an instructor can say other than that, it is possible to look the same placing and slamming in the same line.

2nd) if some one is writing a part to have the cymbals invert, i would hope they know that, inverting a cymbal is BAD for it. it weakens the stricture, and will invert more and more easily each time, and eventually it will break. also on this, inverting is from bad technique. inverting happen when there is no flam in the crash and the force i great enough to create an air pressure difference so great that it escapes by force, causing the cymbal to invert. if there is a nice flam, the cymbal will not. its physics at work.
cymbals used to not be a "by the book" instrument, but the upper echelons of cymbal players have figured out what works and what doesn't, and every ear more books on marching cymbals gets published, and every year it becomes more of a "by the book" instrument. most places haven't gotten that level yet, even some indoor lines. but the number goes up every year. there are defiantly wrong ways to play cymbals, its like playing any other instrument, there is a correct way to play it, but there are 3 or 4 schools of thought on the best correct way. within that the individual interp of the amount of force used to create each sound different, one person may only have to use 30% of thier strength to create a FF crash and another 75%. by the same measure, on person may only use 30% of thier strenth to pull in for a choke, and another 75%. the bad technique part of that is when it becomes excessive. and what is excessive is an individual decision. chances are if they are getting bruised, its excessive and they could re configure their combination of arm- pit to get the same sound/duration using less brute force.