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#35424 - 03/08/04 11:16 AM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: Beat_Master_V]
rangeview_drums Offline


Registered: 07/23/00
Loc: Greeley, CO
I'm against it. To me it just looks fake. A Few front ensembles do it in Colorado, but most don't for that one reason. I don't know, it just looks like the players have been told exactly how to react to the music. My instructors are completely against it. Yes they want us to perform and groove and show that we like what we're playing. But they want us to do it on our own. If we feel the phrase is coming to a peek we move around how ever we feel the need to. Or if the groove is solid and we feel it, we move however we chose or feel at that moment. We don't choreograph anything as far as visual dynamics are concerned. Now yes the visual director might ask us to do a few things together, but thats totally different.
_________________________
Jason Reid
Rangeview HS: Bass #2, Center Snare
UNC: Snare '02 - '03
BKWPE: Drum Set '02-'04



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#35425 - 03/08/04 03:30 PM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: rangeview_drums]
UTM3rdBass Offline


Registered: 12/21/02
Loc: UTM, Martin, Tennessee
You can tell when the person is doing and moving for their own groove and not what they have been told. I do this all the time. I moved to the music because inside it feels great and I just go in a different world while staying in the world that is around me to pick up tempo changes or little mistakes that might come across.

The thing with visual dynamics is that many people are forced to do it and some don't want to. When I teach my pit I am not going to show them how to move. That is something the player has to learn by themself. It's weird but it's true.
_________________________
[color:"blue}CHS Front Ensemble (4 Years)[/color"]
MCL Drum and Bugle Corps(2Yrs)
[color:"red"]DCA I&E Part.(05)2nd place Keyboard[/color]
[color:"orange"]UT Martin Drumline 05-Present[/color]
[color:"blue"]West Athens Percussion (06-07)Marimba[/color]
Bruceton Central High Percussion Tech 07-Present

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#35426 - 03/08/04 04:30 PM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: UTM3rdBass]
batman98 Offline


Registered: 03/06/04
Loc: Dartmouth, MA(but recently mov...
Suppose you have students too introverted and shy to move on their own? Or suppose the music doesn't adhere to what they would normally move to? I feel that encouraging it/teaching (I will never use "forced") it helps some students to get more involved in the actual piece and henceforth appreciate the quality of the work while building a respect for the composer and/or arranger. What do ya think?
(God my spelling is horrible.)
_________________________
"Make the hard stuff look easy, and the easy stuff look hard."
[color:"red"]EIRT[/color] [color:"yellow"]Beta[/color] (Co-Founder)
Vic Firth Education Team
Remo,TRICK, Sabian Endorser
www.steveogrady.com

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#35427 - 03/08/04 05:29 PM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: Beat_Master_V]
QuintGASMAN Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Loc: Burke, Virginia
The big reason why people like drumlines are beacuse of the tricks. We challange loacl drumlines to a trick challange. Drumlines are suppose to be fun to watch and listen to. Concert band is too formal for tricks. Where as Marching Band is more relaxed and casual. That kinda why they perform at Football games. not only do drumlines do visuals but trumpets, flutes, most of the instruments including Tubas. Just look at UMD (University of Maryland)
Pit could do tricks too but since all of our "little, little experianced, people" are in pit we try to keep it to a minimum. Visuals also help you in competion. some Judges will award points for visuals. And if we weren't supposed to visuals then what's colour guard doing in band? (never liked them anyway most of them a little annoying girls with flags that hurt if you piss them off. Ow)
_________________________
02-03 Cymbal 5
03-04 Quints
Eat a little... Breathe a little... Sleep a little...Do HW a little... DRUM A LOT

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#35428 - 03/08/04 06:16 PM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: batman98]
batman98 Offline


Registered: 03/06/04
Loc: Dartmouth, MA(but recently mov...
Again, I'd like to remind everyone that we are talking "VISUAL DYNAMICS" in the pit. NOT pit players doing "visuals" as the drumline does (stick twirling, etc.)
_________________________
"Make the hard stuff look easy, and the easy stuff look hard."
[color:"red"]EIRT[/color] [color:"yellow"]Beta[/color] (Co-Founder)
Vic Firth Education Team
Remo,TRICK, Sabian Endorser
www.steveogrady.com

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#35429 - 03/08/04 09:48 PM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: batman98]
Divalish Global Moderator Offline


Registered: 04/16/03
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:

batman98 said:
Suppose you have students too introverted and shy to move on their own? Or suppose the music doesn't adhere to what they would normally move to? I feel that encouraging it/teaching (I will never use "forced") it helps some students to get more involved in the actual piece and henceforth appreciate the quality of the work while building a respect for the composer and/or arranger. What do ya think?
(God my spelling is horrible.)




I was one of those people who were too introverted and shy to move on my own. So, what did my instructors do? They forced me to do the visual dynamics (like how you explained). Sure, it helped me feel more comfortable behind the boards, but I honestly don't think it helped me understand the music better. It just gave me more things to worry about. The only thing that truly made me comfortable was just performing every night and seeing the difference in crowd response and playing quality when I "felt" the music.

What helped me a lot was another set of instructors I had. They didn't believe in visual dynamics, but they were HUGE believers in communicating with the audience. It was to the point where they threatened me if I didn't smile during our ballad. And ya know what? By the end of the season, I was doing all of that on my own. But, it wasn't just the added little gimmicky stuff that taught me how to perform. There was more than that. We would sit, as a section, and listen to the original recordnings of our charts to get a feel for the music. We'd discuss the general mood of the music, if we thought something was laid back, or aggressive, etc. and how you would communicate that type of emotion in real life and how you could incorporate that into your body language while playing. We watched professionals and tried to understand what made them great performers. Things like that are what helped all of us appreciate the original work.
_________________________
~patty

Crossmen '02-'03
& a whole bunch of WGI

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#35430 - 03/09/04 08:48 AM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: Divalish]
UTM3rdBass Offline


Registered: 12/21/02
Loc: UTM, Martin, Tennessee
My instructors are also big on communication which is a good thing. We don't tap off outloud anymore for that reason. Forcing people to do visual dynamics isn't going to do any good in that point. Like Divalish said it will make the shy person a little more comfortable. We have a person like that in our pit and she has been comfortable because of the communication. What is the good of visual dynamics anyway?
_________________________
[color:"blue}CHS Front Ensemble (4 Years)[/color"]
MCL Drum and Bugle Corps(2Yrs)
[color:"red"]DCA I&E Part.(05)2nd place Keyboard[/color]
[color:"orange"]UT Martin Drumline 05-Present[/color]
[color:"blue"]West Athens Percussion (06-07)Marimba[/color]
Bruceton Central High Percussion Tech 07-Present

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#35431 - 03/09/04 10:19 AM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: UTM3rdBass]
Middle Age Man Global Moderator Offline


Registered: 06/26/01
Loc: Hewitt, NJ
I don't personally like manufactured or mandatory visuals to help get the dynamics across. I feel that if the players are really into the music then they will automatically move in such a way that the intensity and emotion will be communicated on it's own.

Much in the same way as concert pianists tend to get closer to the keyboard during soft sections and farther away for louder sections. Those movements are natural, not ochestrated. Also, as the players move up and down the keyboards during fast runs, that helps convey the frenetic movement all by itself.

Are there times when something needs to be forced? Well, I guess there could be two or three spots in a show, but I don't think that the entire show should choreographed.
_________________________
The Cavaliers - Baritone 1993
Hawthorne Caballeros - Baritone 1988, Contra 1989-1995, Bass 6/5 1996-1998
Pequannock HS - Marching Instructor 1995
Saddle Brook HS - Percussion Instructor 1995
Lodi HS - Percussion Instructor 1996-2003

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#35432 - 03/09/04 10:33 AM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: Middle Age Man]
UTM3rdBass Offline


Registered: 12/21/02
Loc: UTM, Martin, Tennessee
Also there are some techniques that involve the piston stroke which is a quick but more in depth stroke up and down. Sometimes when you are close to the boards during a soft or piano section then you need to use that stroke and you probably or won't be able to do it. I am a pianist myself and the movements that I did came naturally to me while I was playing. Not one time did my teacher had to tell me to move with the music because it comes from the heart. "The music from the heart cannot be taught."
_________________________
[color:"blue}CHS Front Ensemble (4 Years)[/color"]
MCL Drum and Bugle Corps(2Yrs)
[color:"red"]DCA I&E Part.(05)2nd place Keyboard[/color]
[color:"orange"]UT Martin Drumline 05-Present[/color]
[color:"blue"]West Athens Percussion (06-07)Marimba[/color]
Bruceton Central High Percussion Tech 07-Present

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#35433 - 03/09/04 03:42 PM Re: "Visual Dynamics" [Re: UTM3rdBass]
batman98 Offline


Registered: 03/06/04
Loc: Dartmouth, MA(but recently mov...
I don't mean choreography. I'm just asking; isn't a big forte-piano section in a show have inceased intensity (to the audience) if the visual dynamics are put in?
_________________________
"Make the hard stuff look easy, and the easy stuff look hard."
[color:"red"]EIRT[/color] [color:"yellow"]Beta[/color] (Co-Founder)
Vic Firth Education Team
Remo,TRICK, Sabian Endorser
www.steveogrady.com

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