One of the major issues with the top units is the fact they eat batter heads. the constant pressure combined with the vibration of the snare wear through the fabric and the mylar. So if you use the top units a lot count on going through more batter heads then a normal SFZ.


Remo does have Whitemax/Blackmax with coating on the underside it helps but it still wears through.

JoeD is right some corps are using SFZ's. even the ones with the MTS's don't use the top unit that much. if even at all. so why have the weight and extra parts to break.

My opinion is the top unit is just a gimmick and honestly its nearly impossible to clean the snares with top unit on. just makes them so articulate its ridiculous

Most of what multi-Thomm said is correct.

The top snare units do damage the white/black max(the non-kevlar heads), but the cybermax can withstand the extra pressure fairly well. I'm assuming other batter heads as strong as cyber max (fallam, evans mx whites, etc) can do the same. It will still damage the head, but it will not explode as easily as the white/black max.

As for the sound: yes, it adds a different texture to the snare, but that doesn't necessarily make it harder to clean. It would just make the sound different. Personally, the sound is almost too high and it pierces my ear so I do not prefer to play with it too much, but it does sound nice and crisp from far away. The extra vibration you will hear is only noticeable to the player or those that are right up on the drum. With distance it sounds pretty darn good.

I think Pearl and also Yamaha has been going for a different approach on this texture thing by adding the air vent, which plays a little more with the volume of the snare drum. It's less weight than the MTS and it adds cool effects, which already makes it a better option. I believe SCV and Bluecoats were the two corps that used this system this past summer.

If you want to actually hear the difference, I suggest you check out videos of lines that used the MTS or the air vent system.

For the MTS:
Cadets 05
Cavies 04
Madison 07

Air Vent:
SCV 07
Coats 07

And as far as weight goes: yeah it's significantly heavier. The important thing is the difference in weight, not the weight itself. Quad drummers are used to their weight, but snare drummers that are used to playing with SFZ can have trouble adjusting to the extra few lbs.

Bottomline:
It's a cool system, make sure you wear ear plugs, you'll get used to the weight, but also check out the air vent system.

Hope that helps.

-Scott

Yes it does. As skydog said, the increase in articulation takes away any of the already small margin of error that modern kevlar head snares allow. With the top snare on you can hear EVERYTHING. Some lines cut the (bottom) guts off of the outside snares in order to "tune them out," and make the line sound cleaner. Adding the top snare is the opposite effect. Any dirt that's present is magnified.

Did I say that? I think you might be mixing me up with someone else. IMO, more snare response usually means less articulation. You get not only the sound of the stick on the head, but the snares as well. Adding more sound always makes for a fatter sound. (As for whether it's actually harder to clean, I can't say since I've never used a drum with a top snare.)



The extra snares are a big part of what gives Pearl drums their characteristic 'wet' sound. More guts means more snare response, which is part of the difference in sound between recent Pearl drums (16 strands) and current Yamaha snares (10). Coincidentally, early Pearl FFX's and Yamaha SFZ's both were equipped with 14-strand snares.

The dirt definately does get magnified a little bit with the top snares on.

Let me elaborate a little bit on my view on this:

I agree with you on the MTS unit making the sound more articulate. The pressure that's put on the top head by the MTS system cranks up the pitch of the top head, making the sound higher and shorter yet still wet. That's the beauty of this system and the down fall at the same time.

If the line is at high calibur, the MTS unit does not matter. Whether the unit is on or not, there is only one way to play "clean". There is only one way to play correctly in Tempo and there is only one way a line of 7-10 snare drummers will all play correct at the same time.

The difficult thing is, it's rather rare to see any drumline that can play that accurately, even in drum corps level. Therefore, even without the MTS system, snarelines need to cut out few guts because playing in a line of 7-10 drummers with all the gut response makes the sound extremely thick, even if their playing something close to clean. However, in retrospect, if all but one snare guts were taken out, the only thing we would hear is the impact of the stick on the top head with a very thin snare response. This would make the flaws very apparent. What the MTS does is similar to this: making the sound shorter and articulate. Playing with a very articulate sound will only make the dirt more apparent. So yes, it'll require much attention to make it sound clean and perfect, but it'll be easier to spot dirt.

If any one would recall, SCV has kept all their guts until the staff change in 06. 04 and 03 was amazingly clean, yet they still kept all their guts. I believe, if they had the MTS system on their snare turned on the whole time they would still sound just as amazing.

Bottomline, I think we just had a different definition of what "clean" is.

I hope that clear things up.

-Scott

Crap, no you didn't. multi-Thomm did. My bad!

Scott you're right that 100% clean will be the same no matter what the playing surface. But like you said, a 10 man snare line playing EXACTLY together is rare. So there's some shades of gray in there. I think if you clip a few guts off and the end result is that it sounds good, you're doing just fine.

My line uses Yamaha MTS snares and we went through 2-3 heads this year because the top snares pressured the heads and made cracks or made them pull. We used evans batter heads and remo black maxes and it happened to both so its not just the heads. We stopped using them not only because they damage heads but because they sound like they have way too much snare and it sounds dirtier when played on. When tuned right and the bottom snares are adjusted the snares sound perfect making the top snares a complete waste.

The weight difference between the SFZ and the MTS is only 3 pounds.

Source: Yamaha's website

I am looking into getting myself a Yamaha snare drum. I am still debating between getting a SFZ of the MTS. I really want the MTS which is what i am probobly going to get but i wanted some peoples oppinions before i make my purchase. ***I was going to ask a question about custom finishes and how to get them, then I realized that I already have a thread started that covers this. My bad.***