which is better?

http://www.americandrum.com/catalog/accessories/video_AHCTMC.html

OR

http://www.cymbaltechnique101.com/reviews.php

?

Both have thier merits. You will only find people that favor one or the other becuase of their opinion on the best was to produce sound.
That said, I prever the East Coast (american drum) approach, and teach a variant of it myself. I do delve into the eddie capps stuff every now and then, but only out of nessessity.

But Ive never used either book/videos. Ive merely been taught by the people that those guys taught.

which brings me to another question...what's the difference between east and west coast style?

and do both teach a little on freestyle spinning?

Wow... thats a very broad topic. the differences stem from how the cymbal is held, gripped, and controlled, use of arms and wrists differ, the motions are different. the only real reason they are called "east" and "west" is become one came out of the Cadets and the other came out of SCV, and as such influcened local groups.

SCV and the west coast approach.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OrKHXVPI9E8&feature=related
Colts and an east coast variant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYATQ0DpL3I&NR=1
MAgic and a west coast variant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYmGKR4Bz6E&NR=1
Crossmen and an east coast variant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMaoW23fvhc&feature=related
Crossmen with a different east coast variant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn6_A6T-EnA

Thats just to get you started. Theres so much detail invloved with both of them that trying to learn either without some sort of instruction, video or otherwise, will usually end up badly.


AS for free style spinning, I dont know of any source other than the people that teach it. the grip used by lines that do freestyle spinning is comepletely differnt than and of the 3 grips above. and is a variant of the "pistol grip". It is designed specifically to facilitate spinning. the sounds and look are secondary to the spinning.
its the biggest reason why you see lines that do use the grip cradle thier cymbals when playing chicks, randall or hinge.
Here are a few videos of cymbal lines that use it. When watching note the differences in approach to playing, the grips, but more importantly the context in which each is used. each of these lines would look out of place in and ensemble above, just as the ones above would look out of place in the ones below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvdMQHr_ozM
There some good stuff from tennstate, and FAMU here, as well as crossmen and SCV videos, you have to scroll to find them though
http://www.zildjian.com/EN-US/zVideos/videos.ad2

since I have used niether product, I cant say whether or not they teach it, but my hunch says they may cover some flipping, but not spinning.

ohhh. east is big on chicks and hinges and and has more "beat" than west. SCV etc are bigger on crashes and wave visuals?

but don't they both use garfield grips?

and yes i've seen the tennstate videos, i actually learned the grip from that particular video, the one where you put four of your fingers through then put the strap in between your middle finger and pointer finger then turn it around. (hence we've gone as far as up twirls and hamburgers only) that's the one used for freestyle in the video you posted?

Not really thats more in the writing. The differences is more in the approuch of how to play those notes. how they move the cymbals to play a crash, or to play a hi hat, or crunch. Its not what they are doing, its how they do it.

Yes they both use garfield grips, however the way the grips are used are different. SCV really use their fingers, they spread them out, and place them on the cymbal itself, and control it through those, where as other groups, like the crossmen, use a fulcrum on the back of the hand, with closed fingers on the pad.

there are many nuances, its why its such a broad topic.

I have only ever been exposed to Eddie's Cymbal Technique 101, as I have only ever been taught by him and his previous students.

As to the difference between East and West Coast cymbal techniques, East Coast is more relaxed and flowy, whereas West Coast goes for a much more aggressive and rigid approach. Eddie's approach is hard to classify as being either East or West Coast, and is better classified as it's own approach. It's all about being aggressive, but going about things naturally and still letting the cymbals do some of the work as well.

East Coast lines tend to stick to crashing from the Vertical Port position sticking mainly to the 'AVA' crash, and West Coast lines primarily crash at horizontal port and prefer the 'flat-crash'. Of course, both styles do crash from both ports though. From what I've heard, Vanguard doesn't even play hinge chokes (chicks) anymore, and haven't in several years. Any hi-hat chick timbre is produced through slams/crunches.

Grip-wise, yes, both styles rely on Garfield Grip. East Coast lines seem to prefer the closed hand grip, whereas West Coast and Eddie's technique rely on keeping the palm flat against the pad and cymbal, as if one was palming a basketball. To my own understanding, removing and reapplying the fingers when performing crashes, taps, or slides, is done to let the cymbals ring and maximize sound quality. Vanguard also removes and reapplies when moving their cymbals from visual to visual and from set to playing position and vice versa, giving them their signature 'pop' when they hit a position.

OK I think I've said enough. I hope this was of some help. I tried not to get too specific, as there are too many details to ever list off! Feel free to ask questions, I don't mind answering.

wow that was helpful. would you know a little about freestyling?

Unfortunately, I know nothing about freestyling. I've only ever been exposed to Garfield and orchestral grips and techniques associated withe them. The best resource I've seen so far is the video up on zildijan.com mentioned earlier.

Sorry!

I couldn't help but reply to this.

There is a large common misconception that there is a divide between the west and east sides of the country as far as cymbal technique goes. There are hundreds of different approaches.

Santa Clara has used the same technique for what I remember of about 15 or more years. Its simple, clean, angular, aggressive, and extremely defined. By extremely defined, Im talking they stand in mirrors for hours upon hours making sure each inch of movement is identical from player to player.

Just an observation, but I've seen a heck of a lot more west coast highschools use "east coast" philosophies.

The Colts have used a very flowy crash technique for years and visually is pretty clean. Its centered around the set position at eye level.

Crossmen in recent years has used a mix of angular and flowy techniques. Very similar to Colts.

Spirit, taught under Eddie Capps, has used many different techniques over the years. The thing with Mr. Capps is he is ALWAYS trying new things, changing ideas, and mixing in as much ideas as possible. Its not able to be sifted into 2 catagories (like the odyssey guys posted above).

The only plate line I see year after year with nearly EXACTLY the same techniques would be the Vanguard. Every year, there seems to be a slight variation on something, but its almost perfectly the same.

Colts, Crossmen, and most other corps tend to have a similar position of centering around eye level, but vary in a LOT of things. Most of the time, the "east coast" thought process can be traced back to old madison scouts, carolina crown stuff. A certain guy named Gomez comes to mind, but then again, who taught him?

This really gets thrown out the window with WGI. Music City Mystique over the last 5 years has developed a strong program. A set technique that doesn't change. The playing techinque is agressive, angular, and clean. However the visuals are a mix of very flowy, to "release and reloads", to choppy.

Fred J. Page (Scholastic World Drumline) uses a technique very close to Vanguard, Spirit 2004, and Mystique. A very large melting pot of ideas. Mostly influenced by the Vanguard.


Rhythm X, (Independent World Drumline) uses a VERY flowy, very animated techinque. They have definitely influenced a lot of northern WGI cymbal lines.

Thats a lot of me talking, but you have to really understand that there isn't any sort of "separation" when it comes to cymbal lines. Its only what the instructor has decided(and what was taught to them), or what the kids have borrowed from lines they've seen.

Oh another thing, as far as the whole fingers being stretched out or put together...

I know a lot of lines just...don't define it...except for SCV and Mystique, a lot of the time its something that doesn't get talked about.

The East Coast/West Coast thing has always bothered me. There are tons of styles out there. The main thing is that the people on the line look the same and the quality of the crashes are good.

One isn't right over any other. I brought my version of the Cadets style to the Crossmen and they adjusted it to fit themselves and came out with some fantastic cymbal lines. Other people have done some great work, like Gomez, Kelly Howell, John Brehm, etc.

I don't agree with Insomniac's comment regarding how fingers are used. We used finger technique at Cadets and Crossmen. It was mainly used more for chokes.

Pharrell's comments on the hand grip being closed on the East Coast technique is not true either. I taught the lines so that the hand would be flat on the pad so the cymbals would ring naturally. We had to play that way during open crashes because the Cadets horn line was insanely loud and we had to balance with their volume.

The main thing is to look at as many lines as you can and learn from them. Take what you want from those lines and create your own style. That is what my video is all about.

I marched Magic in 2005 (for clarifications sake, not with the cymbal line but in the hornline, rather) and the cymbaline's technique was directly taken from Spirit's 04 book. Multiple member's of the line and staff came from the Spirit '04 line (and staff). That might answer a question I saw in one of the first posts on the topic.