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4149 Members
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13466 Topics
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Max Online: 722 @ 04/10/08 12:10 PM
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#154205 - 11/15/07 08:52 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: akeith5913]
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Registered: 03/09/07
Loc: Mississippi
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Quote:
Quote:
Top because this person needs GOOD hands. Basically a Snare drummer on bass.
2nd because timing needs to be perfect. Hand also must be equal to top bass.
3rd because this person has the most notes in the bassline. The smartest and most consistent bass drummer should be on this drum.
4th because like 2nd bass, timing needs to be above average.
5th because this person needs to beat the EFF out of the drum.
Right on. I do it about the same way Toe...
1st is generally the last guy cut off the snare line. Gotta have hands to play a bunch of notes.
2nd is my smart guy. Got the hands to cover a lot of notes and must be smart because he/she is on the upbeat most of the time. This is my bass section leader.
3rd is my rock-n-roll guy. 2 & 4 baby. Some notes but doesn't have to have great hands.
4th has gotta have the brains. Not as much as #2 but still has the upbeats.
5th is the biggest, strongest guy who can carry the drum.
I actually disagree with this, and no offense, but I feel this way of thinking is why many basslines aren't all that great. To begin with, you can't always judge the level of playing simply by which drum a person is marching. I've marched Bass 1 of 7, 3 of 8, and 4 of 6, and found difficulties in all three positions. Difficulty has more to do with the actual music and the number of drums. These other examples may fit for the standard five drum bassline, but what about for four, six, seven, or eight drums? The parts will shift and with that, difficulty will shift. Also, as I said, difficulty depends on the music. No one said that bass 3 of 5 had to play on two and four on every run!! Every player on a bassline should at least be able to play on the "E" and "UH" of a run. Moving parts around keeps your players thinking which is CRITICAL for a successful bassline. I hate hearing basslines that play the standard runs (1.2.3.4.5.4.3.2.1) By doing that no one on the line is learning anything useful about timing or expanding their abilities. SO.. change it up. We (Mississippi State) rarely play a "standard" run for warmups (or auditions for that matter). Each day it's something different. So, as I said, change it up. Have your line (using a 5 drum line for example) play something like these:
5.2.3.1.3.4.5.1
1.3.5.4.2.1.3.5
3.2.4.1.5.2.1.4
etc. etc. etc.
The key is to keep a bassline on their toes and not have them regurgitating the SAME PARTS ALL THE TIME. Besides.. that's just boring and from an educational standpoint, limiting a lines potential and growth.
...so yeah.. that's my 2 or 3 or 78 cents. 
_________________________
Mississippi State Drumline:
2003: Bass 4 of 6
2005: Bass 3 of 8
2006: Bass 1 of 7
2007: Bass 1 of 7
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#154206 - 11/16/07 12:27 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: MStatebass]
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Registered: 09/24/03
Loc: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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WIthout repeating the same stuff every da, how do you develop consistency player to player in a college line?
Secondly How is one supposed to achieve the non standard run in a line with players who arent musically mature, and dont have snugglebunny of years of experience. In most HS lines you have to take what you can get.
When speaking about a drum corps, Its pretty mucha non issue.
And college falls somwhere between. you get some crazy experienced people, and others who played snare for 4 years in a garbage HS line, who have trouble playing consisten upbeats.
My thought Is that regardless of how many basses there are, each one has a criteria of what makes a good player of that drum. players 123, and if the line is larger, 4 Need to be musically mature, and as the line gets larger, the musical requirements get less difficult, more becuase larger drums dont articulate well at long distances. Particularly if they are tuned poorly. If yopu can find me 5 HS feshmen and sophomores that can play e's and a'a as consistent as a high school junior or senior, then I wouldnt have the problems I have.
SO Im not nessacerily disagreeing with you, Im just saying the person who asked this question most likely is about to go into high school, or is in a high school level line. SO using that as context,I'd say Toe's assesment is about right
FOr my official position, two is the hardest drum to play, and march well. The only thing it doesnt have to do that all the other drums do, is deal with a large drum. Timing needs to be more detailed and consistent than any other drum. Marching needs to be more consisttant than any other drum, becuase you will be setting the interval for the other 3 behind you, as a result, you need to be more aware of what the 1st drummer is doing, as if he wrong youll need to adjust, musically, and marching(ally?).
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#154207 - 11/16/07 01:12 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: Insomniac]
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Registered: 03/09/07
Loc: Mississippi
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Obviously, when it comes to any line (excluding DCI, maybe) you are going to have large discrepancies among players. Like you said, experience and background have a lot to do with playing ability, but just because a Freshman in high school may not be the top-notch counter, doesn't mean that kid should not be exposed to harder/varied material. What exactly are you trying to achieve with your bassline? Players who can consistently play the same thing every single day? or a well-rounded player who, if the opportunity arrives, can play something other than the downbeat(which, I agree, can even be difficult for the least-experienced). I guess my overall point is to broaden the horizons of each player on the bassline. Certainly your top 2-4 basses (given the size of your line) are generally going to have more experience and perform at a higher reading level, but that doesn't mean the 6'4", 250 lb giant hauling around bass 8, can't be given an up-beat every so often. Also, if you teach your lower drums how to play harder material, wouldn't that stand to reason that they could play the "easier" parts that they are generally given? This is perhaps even more important at the high school level from a teaching perspective, considering the overall goal should be devoted to education. Also, if you teach your lower drums "harder" material, then that places a bassline in a good position to progress over the years. Your bass 5 of 5 could be a Freshman and by the following year due to varied exposure could be marching a higher drum with more demanding parts, which in the long run could make teaching a line less frustrating.
_________________________
Mississippi State Drumline:
2003: Bass 4 of 6
2005: Bass 3 of 8
2006: Bass 1 of 7
2007: Bass 1 of 7
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#154208 - 11/16/07 05:41 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: MStatebass]
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Registered: 03/20/06
Loc: kingsville, tx
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as others have said, it depends on the experience level of your bass line
but, as kent cater himself put it: 3rd bass hasta be perfect in a good bassline
_________________________
Fever Drum and Bugle Corps bassline 2003-07 Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia Pi Chi chapter initiate c/o 2008 All hail Sinfonia! http://www.myspace.com/gbassman5
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#154210 - 11/19/07 04:11 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: MStatebass]
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Registered: 07/10/07
Loc: Northbrook, IL
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Quote:
I feel this way of thinking is why many basslines aren't all that great.
Or it may have been this way of thinking that made many basslines great. Everybody has their own way of doing things Ken. Not to say you're right or wrong on the issue. The method I expressed has worked well for me and my high school lines over the years. I developed a lot of this thought process from my program coordinator in corps because it was a proven method of selecting guys to put on a drum. Granted the corps scene was a little different because the guys playing in the bassline were bass drummers. They weren't snare or tenor rejects, they auditioned on bass because that's what they played.
Does my high school line play standard runs constantly? No. Is everything my #3 guy plays on 2&4? Of course not. I've had some great basslines over the years and I've had some not so great ones. I don't have the talent level that most drum corps have so I feel like my method works well for me. Again, may not work for anybody else but I've had good success with it.
College is just different. We used to put 8-10 basses on the field to even out the 12 snares, 7 tenors and 2,000 cymbal players we had. Seems like most of the bass parts were unison as I remember. We just wanted to be heard over 300 wind players. Didn't care if we were super clean or had cool parts. We were usually taught by a grad student who didn't want to be there and I don't think there was anything remotely educational about it. It was just fun for us.
I did teach a camp in Mississippi a number of years ago where they had six bass drums but, fortunately, I didn't arrange the book.
_________________________
Univ. of Ky - Tenors, '89-'91
Cavaliers - Tenors, '91-'92
Chicago Bears Drumline - Tenors, '05-'08
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#154213 - 11/29/07 03:16 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: basschick_sara]
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Registered: 11/29/07
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yeah none of our basses are any harder than the others... 6 and 5 may be a little easier than the others...but not much.
_________________________
I am afraid of Stanley Steamers...
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#154218 - 12/21/07 01:11 AM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: CrownBass]
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Registered: 02/27/05
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
speak it sorayah!! btw...text me and tell me where you're marching this summer...
Bluecoats maybe????? 
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#154219 - 01/09/08 05:42 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: Bass4Life]
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blank
Registered: 01/09/08
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all drums are basically equally as important...if you dont have a 2 bass obviously..it will sound bad. everyone needs to be on th esame page when it comes to musical interpretation..top 3 need to have better hands but bottom 2-ish still need to be able to keep up with top 3, bc if you don't your bassline wont succeed..
basicaly, all in all..ALL bass drums are important..and i just realized this wasn't a which one most important subject..so hardest i would just say top 2 due to the nature of them.
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#154222 - 01/09/08 11:25 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: WCUPerc2012]
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Registered: 12/23/07
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Quote:
Basically, the parts get easier as the drum gets heavier.
i wouldn't really say that. . . . i don't think parts get easier as the drum gets heavier.
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#154224 - 01/26/08 03:39 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: Bass4Life]
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Registered: 07/08/03
Loc: Charleston, SC
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I tend to agree with sorayah...
They're all involved, but for different reasons. I don't think one drum is necessarily "more difficult" than any other one.
Top bass essentially has to have snare caliber hands. He (or she) tends to mirror the snares on lots of phrases. Also, top tends to either start or end many of the runs, so it's either the first, or last thing a judge hears.
Second bass is on the upbeat...seems like all the time. Second bass tends to be reserved for one of your more seasoned or "cerebral" players, as it's non-stop counting. They also need to be able to feel the rhythms to a certain extent. You have to count, and not listen...it's kinda like a rifle shot...once you hear it, it's too late.
Third is the pivot drum, and as stated above, must be flawless. If a run tanks in the middle, what was the point.
Four, like two, is all on the upbeat. Therefore, you must be a counting fiend, as above. Also, it's quite a bit heavier than two, so it is physically more demanding than the smaller drums.
Five is the anchor. The guy (or girl) who plays down here must be a THUG! This is where the power in your line comes from, and as mentioned on drum one, five begins or ends lots of the runs. In addition...look at it...it's huge! I, for one, couldn't march a full eleven minutes with a 32" and function afterwards.
That all being said, I think EACH drum in the line is intrinsic and equally important.
Best,
Aaron
Edited by awbyrd (01/26/08 03:43 PM)
_________________________
Aaron
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#154226 - 01/27/08 04:16 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: MStatebass]
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blank
Registered: 01/13/08
Loc: Lincolnton, NC
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I think it's pretty weird, but at our school bass difficulty is from 5th:hardest to 1st:easiest. Can anyone maybe fill me in on why our line's instructor does this?
_________________________
True skill is developed with heart, desire, and effort.
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#154227 - 01/27/08 04:52 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: cheesecake]
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Registered: 02/10/07
Loc: Chesterland, Ohio
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2nd and 4th can get pretty weird, especially when you start doing 32nd splits and stuff of that calibre. But, and my school, we don't have that kind of music. So at my high school, I'm going to say that the position that is the hardest is 5th bass, just because of the weight. I have found that some people will focus more on correct posture and just holding the bass up, and completely throw technique and marching out the window. It's a shame, and I can only assume it is because this year the basses used stands more than they should have.
_________________________
West Geauga High School 06-10 - Bass, Snare, Quads
Capital Regiment Hopeful 2009
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#154229 - 01/30/08 05:19 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: akeith5913]
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Registered: 12/29/05
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Since I write my line's parts, the hardest drum is simply whichever drum I want it to be. But generally speaking... #1 has to have good hands. #2 has to have good hands and a great feel for upbeats. #3 is the "rock & roll" drum. In basic run patterns like a straight down-&-up, it's on beat 2 & 4 -- just like the snare drum in a typical rock & roll song. #4 has fewer notes, but some upbeat stuff like #2. If the parts are moderately difficult, he'll need great wrists and fingers to bring out doubles on that loose, bouncy head. #5 is often the easiest rhythmically, but there's no margin for error. If you mis-time a ff+ thump on the bottom bass, you make the whole line sound bad. (And add some difficulty points for being big & heavy.)
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#154230 - 02/20/08 09:07 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: SkyDog]
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Registered: 03/26/07
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I think it greatly depends on the arranger. Like at my high school, there's no difference all they play is eighth notes anyway. At drum corps bass 1 and I (bass 2) have crazy crap that most of the other 3 basses dont' get much of. Just depends on the writer.
_________________________
Chris Wolf
SLD 05 Plates Music of Styx
SLD 06 Plates Music of the Moody Blues
SLD 07 Snare (finally) A Latin Exchange
Carolina Gold 07 Snare Deja Vu
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#154231 - 02/20/08 09:58 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: littlesnareboy]
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Registered: 02/12/08
Loc: OH-IO
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Ive always been told exactly what you guys have said, About The first having hands
Second having hands AND rythmns
Ect
Ive never truley marched bass, and when I have, theirs no complexity bass, Show band, You honestly think we split?
But, Ive always been told bass 2 is the hardest, simply because they have to have wicked hands, because they lose a lot of speed with the mallets over sticks, so they have to have wicked snare hands, AND they connect, and run everytihng together, Ive noticed the 3rd bass is generally the connecting bass, but the 2nd bass seems to play the more complex faster parts, and connect them togheter
Edited by 9Volt (02/20/08 09:59 PM)
_________________________
My favorite YouTube comment On the subject of a bad tenor player just to let you guys know, being a drummer, he meant to hit the rims, it's part of the effect. It changes it up a bit.
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#154233 - 02/22/08 11:21 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: awbyrd]
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Registered: 06/08/06
Loc: Missouri CIty, Texas
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Quote:
The guy (or girl) who plays down here must be a THUG!
Well said. Personally, I don't feel like there are any positions in a bass line that are "less important". The way that a bass line functions, EVERYONE must be dead-on, or things fall apart quickly.
Because of my bass line's personnel, we're kind of arranged more by physical limitations rather than playing ability. Our first bass player is barely 5 feet tall and she probably weighs 90 lbs, so for her to march anything heaver than second would be ridiculous. Our second bass is a freshman, and even though she's like 5 inches taller than me, she's not as strong, and I don't think she'd do well carrying anything heavier. I'm the beast out of the girls, haha, so I always get stuck with the heaviest drums. I've marched 4th for a few seasons, and now I'm marching 3rd. The two guys are always on bottom.
For my line, 1st almost mirrors the snares. Your hands have to be good, and you have to be intelligent enough to know where to come in, because most of the time people are depending on you to start runs. Second plays less than first, but still a lot. The way my instructor writes, 2nd doesn't necessarily always play on upbeats, but you still have to have really good timing. You also have to be a pretty good marcher, because usually you set the angle for the rest of the basses. 3rd is best described as the "rock and roll drum". You're the anchor of the bassline, and you have control over a whole lot. You usually play the most notes out of the bass line. 4th is another drum where timing is really important. It's also pretty hefty, so it takes someone who's either pretty burly, or has a lot of determination. 5th is the foundation of the bass line. When the 5th bass drops out, there isn't any hiding it, so you have to be smart and know your part. It's also a unique drum because you sometimes get "bottom bass solos". You keep the beat for the entire drumline.
_________________________
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#170262 - 08/23/08 12:51 AM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: basschick_sara]
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Registered: 08/21/08
Loc: Texas
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First has to have chops
Second has to have chops, but be able to focus on timing.
Third has to have consistent timing.
Fourth has to have some cajones to get the runs, while carrying the drum.(speaking from lack of talent in my high schools 4th)
Fifth has to be able to tough it out, and have enough 'punch'.
Now every single bass needs to have incredible timing, and be able to match each other.If you don't listen or match, everything will sound like poop.
Each person needs to be dedicated, and willing to be the mathematical musicians they can be.
"A bass line that does (BLANK) together, plays (BLANK) well together"
_________________________
Rockwall-Heath High School
07-08 Cymbals
08-09 Snare
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#170391 - 08/24/08 11:15 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: Snare21]
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Registered: 06/19/08
Loc: Connecticut
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2 and 4 are hardest to play because of how the splits normally line up, with those 2 being on the up beats (e's +'s and a's) but 2 often plays some of what the snares play so they have to have snugglebunny of chops to play clean witht the snares let alone the bass line
_________________________
Trumbull Percussion
07 Contrast - Cymbal Line - WGI PSO Finalist
07 Continuum - Bass Line - MAC Outstanding Percussion
08 Science of Music - Bass Line - WGI PSO Silver Medalist
08 Firebird - Snare Line
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#170426 - 08/25/08 05:40 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: Snare21]
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blank
Registered: 01/03/08
Loc: Odenville, Alabama USA
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its much like the line as a whole. snares, tenors, and basses are all fun and challenging in their own way. each bass is like this if you stop and think about it. kinda like Snare21 said.
First has to have chops
Second has to have chops, but be able to focus on timing.
Third has to have consistent timing.
Fourth has to have some cajones to get the runs, while carrying the drum.(speaking from lack of talent in my high schools 4th)
Fifth has to be able to tough it out, and have enough 'punch'.
Now every single bass needs to have incredible timing, and be able to match each other.If you don't listen or match, everything will sound like poop.
Each person needs to be dedicated, and willing to be the mathematical musicians they can be.
"A bass line that does (BLANK) together, plays (BLANK) well together"
all of this being said no bass is harder than the other in my opinion.
_________________________
Saint Clair County High School Drumline:
Sophmore '08 - '09 Tenors
Pirates of the Caribbean The Curse of the Black Pearl
Freshman '07 - '08 Bass 4 (bottom)
The Sound of Patriotism
8th Grade '06 - '07 Cymbals
Earth Wind & Fire
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#170908 - 09/03/08 10:12 PM
Re: Which postition is the hardest??
[Re: MStatebass]
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Registered: 09/03/08
Loc: Texas
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1 and 2 in my opinion split 6's and what not, bass in general is a very mental drum to play tenors and snares all play unison no offense i played tenors in high school.
_________________________
Playing:
WHS TENOR LINE 03-06
UTPA BASS LINE 07-08
REVOLUTION DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS BASS(3)2008
Teaching:
Progreso HS 07-08
Weslaco HS 08-present
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