First of all, SCV is Santa Clara Vanguard, a drum corps, and Crossmen is another corps.

Anyway, its alright for different people to have different opinions on the matter. You (drumcorpbc) need to understand however, that maybe people are not in cymbal emphasized programs, and can not do anything to change that.

And your comment was not necessary because your implying that people want to be on your line. I firmly stand by all my statements as well.

People do want to be on my line, perhaps not people on here because they aren't in my area, but every 8th grader that plays drums in the 9 feeder schools all audition each year.

What I was saying about the attitude is that if you were a student audition for my line, you wouldn't make it with the attitude of "I'm on cymbals, so I'm not proud."

What difference does it make if it's a HS or a corps? I was not a cymbal emphasized program. In fact, it's the students in the cymbal section that run the section. I write the music, they create the visuals and the traditions that the cymbal line has now. Why do they do this? Because they are proud to be on the cymbal line and are making the most of the situation. I graduate 1 senior from my battery this year. She is a cymbal player and has told me numerous times she wouldn't play any instrument but cymbals. She has the chops to play snare for me, but she opted for cymbals.

I never once said that it's not ok for people to have other opinions. What I said was that it's no ok for people to not be proud of being a part of the ensemble. It may not be your first choice, but not everyone can play snare.

I notice you are a junior in high school. Not saying you are inexperienced, but when you get a little older, you will look at things much differently.

And I will back Bill's statement fully. As you expand your horizons in percussion, as we all hope, your opinions will change.

Actually, im a *cough* sophomore, and maybe my opinion will change. But for now, and as I explained to Mandingo, I am answering the original question.

Definition of Proud: feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself (dictionary.com)

Cymbals are not always considered highly hnorable, but for some they are, so if you're one of those people, congratulations.

If you are on cymbals, but wish to be on something different in the future, then its okay to not be proud now, but try to make it something to be proud of.

Its hard for people to be proud of playing cymbals(in the second group) when you march into the stadium and people say, "Josh? You're still on cymbals?" Yes, I know that cymbals aren't the hardest, and I know that I don't suck, and I know the real reason why I'm playing cymbals (to play melodics in the show)

My family even tells me when I talk about my hopes of getting into good colleges and going into music ed. that I only play cymbals. When I talk about a drumline tradition, they tell me that cymbals arent a drum, therefore im not on the drumline. I know that these comments are coming out of their a**, but it still makes me lose pride.

Maybe it would be easier to be proud of cymbals if we marched them in the show, where visuals can be done and seen by people other than t he visiting team, across the field.

I was a tenor player in junior year of HS and I had seen a few indoor competitions and a DCI show and never really watched the cymbal lines but I knew that I wanted to be in one of those drumlines just to be part of a line that looked and sounded like they did. I went to anaheim kingsmen for the 2000 season and was open to the idea of playing anything I could. My thinking was along the lines of "I want upper battery, I'll settle for bass or even cymbals" I played bass in my sophomore year but never played cymbals and all I really knew about cymbal lines was that I couldn't stand my school's line.
the snareline and tenorline was full of HS and drum corps instructors and the bassline was full of off-season drum corps bass players but they had trouble filling the cymbal line so I volunteered and played alongside a girl from the impulse cymbal line (this was before impulse's cymbals became pretty decent) and some snare player from some HS. I had fun but we werent much more than an above average HS line, but at least I was part of an awesome drumline.

So the next year I figured I'd audition for Pacific Crest and I knew my chops on tenors and bass weren't up to par so I figured since I played for Kingsmen on cyms, I should be fine. yeah, thats when I realized that I wasnt a cymballer, I was just HS tenor player that put on some cymbals. They had to tear my horrible technique down and rebuild me in their image. just going through workshops and audtions was murderous in itself. there was only 2 open spots and a PC baritone player switched to cyms and then there was one spot and I was up against a few pretty good cymballers that solely played cymbals and barely made the cut. The whole season I had to go through hell just to keep up and by the end I wasn't a HS tenor player that had cymbals, I was a cymbal player that can sorta drum.

Now I teach cymbal lines and instill the spirit in them of "It's not what you play that shows your dedication, it's the journey you went on and the results you display"

Only be "unproud" if you dont belong in the line because you lack the desire to make your section the best it can be.

I think that everyone in the world would teach the oposite of the stereotypical belief that cymbal players are the lower class of the line, because they aren't.
Cymbals add so much to the music, they can be an added visual effect, they can do so many things that people don't think of. If you aren't proud of playing you instrument to the best of your ability, and realizing that you are making the band better as a whole for doing so, you don't deserve to play it. Who cares what Nonpercussionists say that cymbals are nothing... They don't play them, so what do they know?

I agree. I think a lot of people underestimate the challenge of cymbals. I'd say all of the non-percussionists, and most all of the 'drummers' all have no idea how physically demanding cymbals are. I understand its hard to build chops and learn rudiments, buts its also hard to be physically prepared to MAKE cymbals look easy. They are not easy to play, it is tiring to say the least, but to make cymbal playing look as easy as people see it, is the challenge we take on. This as compared to the challenge drummers take on making hard clean rudiments look easy.

Right. Cymbal players are constantly holding 5 pound objects out from their body, and if you have a lot of visuals, you are moving your arms all over the place, with different dynamic demands and things. Its not easy at all. If your cymbal players are upset with being on cymbals and not having anything challenging, than make it challenging. There is the solution. If you want your entire drumline to care (which you should) challenge them. Show them that playing cymbals isn't just about hitting 2 peices of metal together. Make it fun=]

I've noticed quite an evolution of my cymbal line @ Paramount from my Freshman year in 1997 to the present. I never played cymbals in High School but there was always something that drew my attention even though they were just going through the motions. The cymbal lines through my entire experience @ PHS were lacking desire to marching a line that expanded upon their very limited vocabulary and dedication to prove their worth on the field rather than accept mediocrity of a standstill pit cym line.

When I began teaching the line the year after graduating, I got a line full of rookies partially due to the void of notoriety and legacy that previous lines left. I couldn't be happier, 4 lumps of clay to mold into something potentially great. We made sure to incorporate more polished and finely-tuned versions of the older techniques to a vastly expanded vocabulary. We also began incorporating a new philosophy that stresses the importance of teamwork and cooperation throughout the band while still challenging ourselves to the fullest and striving for perfection to showcase the misunderstood difficulty and complexity of a true modern marching cymbal line. This line played more beats and explored more sounds and effects than any PHS cymbal line I'd seen up to that point.

I knew when I went back in 2004 to a new line with a new band director, anything could have happened. When I saw my line play for the first time, it was interesting to say the least. My teachings from 2001 had morphed into a Picasso-inspired version of their former self. This line had an unquenchable thirst for evolution and challenge fueled by a fiery passion to make everyone take notice that their line were the realization of the core philosophy idealized a few years prior. This line had the talent, desire, passion, and confidence to usher in the renaissance of the PHS Drumline.

Although I was only able to briefly assist in 2005 and 2006, these became truly benchmark years for the line. Each year's line offered something different than its predecessor. The simple clean expression of the music and aggressive approach was followed by an unparalleled sense of unity through conflict which resulted in a very intense and explosive line in every aspect.

The underestimation of the ability and dedication of the cymbal line was always mistakenly a topic of everyday conversation in the Marching Band. I was called in just weeks before PHS was to compete in the 2006 Southern California Championships. The drumline was frequently falsely and ignorantly criticizing the cymbal line for many reasons and by this point in the evolution of PHS Cymbals, the cymbal line wouldn't take such disrespect and lack of appreciation lying down.

The cymbal line began to have too much pride and emotion invested in their work for their own good. They simply needed to focus this passion on their pursuit for perfection. When I showed up I expected a train wreck and was treated to a wrecking ball of a line that was ready to demolish everyone's misconceptions of the abilities and pride of a well-guided, small-medium sized band, cymbal line. We cleaned techniques, added a couple of beats and split up some notes begging for splits. Then we rocked out cleaning and visuals, cleaning and visuals, cleaning and visuals, etc. --one visual we added during a drum break involved the line putting their cymbals on the ground and strap-out, stand casual, check the time, look at drumline, check the time, look irritated @ drumline in slight split-pose lean, kneel to cymbals, strap-in and pop back up. Nothing but excessive praise was given to the line from many for that one especially -- At that point the majority of the marching band and many skeptics and critics began to truly take notice and appreciate the tremendous ability required to not only make amazing things happen musically and visually, but also fight onward and shed the stereotypes once associated with the PHS Cymbal Line.

This year can be summed up in one word, "CHALLENGE!" I have been fortunate enough to be around since band camp and have written my most difficult Cymbal field show book to date. The music is tastefully jam-packed of beats upon beats, splits-galore, effects/sounds/colors/etc. en mass, and some of the biggest and beefiest unisons executed by a PHS cym line. Sight-reading began agonizingly slow due to their inexperience w/ such extreme split rhythms and patterns. Memorization of music alone was a challenge and at this point we are still working out some kinks in dynamics. Marching started well considering a new marching technique was implemented this year (if they could just get minor lower-body facings and one big obvious transition down Visuals, visuals, visuals. A double-edged sword this season. The visuals that have been added in thus far have been executed with a very frighteningly clean intensity and attitude. However, a couple of attempted visuals had to be cut for various reasons while quite a few of them are on the chopping block. Some frustration is evident in the line because this show design for them is INSANE!!! As a result of a few less-productive rehearsals, a few visuals may be sacrificed in favor of allowing time to perfect music, marching, visuals and possibly a 3-man Pit-Viper near the end which includes a crash choked by the ground. (also TBAdded: cymbal drum break -- each cym has VF sheath velcroed to their right calf and loaded w/ 1 pair of tenor mallets -- set cyms on ground leaving right foot planted on ground, strap-out, pull-out mallets to play break on grounded cymbals, replace mallets, strap-in, pop up to set

Already a few new plans/ideas are being considered for implementation in next year's line. More rookies probably means less notes to play than in the book from '07. These notes WILL be played flawlessly due to more detailed and extensive cleaning of technique and timing. Visuals will follow the same philosophy by using many simple but sharp angle-intensive visuals that will due quite a considerable amount to enhance the overall theme of the field show. It may sound easy for veterans, but if you play like a hummingbird on crack one year, it is quite a challenge to train your body to slow down from its familiar performance style and still be in full control during a performance. Plus, if I get my way and my line has little to no say in the matter, they could potentially have 2 different cymbals to choose from:
18" Sabian Hand Hammered New Symphonic (2 pairs)
20" Sabian Hand Hammered Viennese (3 pairs)
Heheh, ok, maybe I AM a horrible sick bastard for wanting 20" HH cyms for the children, but their cyms in '07 couldn't withstand their awesome power (all but 2of6 pairs of ZXTs have broken or began to cave) so now the line needs to upgrade and have their arms fall off for just a lil while.

So here's where I provide a quick summary of what I just said. Some of the most important parts of building pride in cymbals is some sort of inspirational/educational catalyst to spur evolution and a desire to seek out challenges.

PHS Cymbal Lines '01-'07 have grown faster and higher than anyone could have anticipated and it's all thanks to their hard work inspired by the guidance of the few believers of a proud Cymbal Line.

(it also helps to show students what has been successful for other groups as well as what has been lacking in previous lines in your group - not to mention it's kinda funny @ times

Yes,It's bad to not be proud.My perc. instructor told me he once had to play $300 to play the triangle,he did'nt complain and he rocked out to the triangle.Be pround of what you play and make it the best thing.